Father’s Day, 21st June, 1992
G: Hello! You’re in rare form!
G: What have you been doin’ all day?
MJ: Nothin’, rehearsin’ and stuff. My father called and asked me for half a million dollars (laugh).
MJ: (laugh) Hooo (laugh).
G: Are you serious??
MJ: And on Father’s Day.
MJ: Joseph called me-
MJ: Joseph called me with this sob story, and he said “I been tryin’ to get a hold of you for three weeks.”
MJ: I’m like, “Yeah, well what do you want?” And he’s like, “Your number’s changed.” I said, “Yeah. Anyway, what do you want?” (The way he said that, by the way, was funny.) ‘Cause he had to go through, he had to go through four different people to get a hold of me. So I said, “Okay. Fine.” Put his call through.” He wanted to borrow half a million dollars. I’m like, “Oh. Why are you in debt- What did you do now? Why are you in debt this time, Joseph?”
MJ: You know, he played this crap on me about (imitating Joseph’s voice), “Oh, well, you know, you my son, you know.”
MJ: Like, yeah. (Joe’s voice again) “Aww, you know, I pay it back and, you know, we can come up with a contract.”
G: Has he done this before?
MJ: Yeah! All the time. And you know, when his business, when he had Joe Jackson Productions. He was real good in the beginning, back, you know, with us, when we were little, but… he’s not a very good businessman.
G: Well, what does he do now, though, since (I – managing your sisters?)
MJ: He does what he does. Well, you know, it’s like, he wanted to borrow money before and then he had to go through Mother to get it. [He would go on forever] you know.
G: (i). But I don’t remember when [whispers inaudible]
MJ: And then… they want me to give Joseph money and stuff like that. So I say, “Okay, well I’m not gonna give it to Joseph. I’ll give it Mother, so he doesn’t just throw all the money away and stuff like that, she’s in charge of it.” So now he called me again. “I been tryin’ to get a hold of you for three weeks and this and that.” Blah blah llaaalllaa, whatever. (i). He always in debt.
G: Oh my god. On Father’s Day?
G: How appropriate!
G: (laughs) And what did you tell him?
MJ: I tell him, “I don’t know,” I said, “I’ll think about. I’ll get back to you.”
G: Are you gonna do it?
MJ: No, I’m not gonna do it!
G: Ungrateful chiiiild! (laughs)
MJ: I know…
MJ: He like (Joe’s voice again), “If it weren’t for me, you wouldn’t be where you are today.” And stuff.
G: Is that what he says?? Did he say that today?
MJ: Hell yeah, he says that to me.
G: (laugh) Oh my god!
MJ: He’d always tell us that. When we were little. “Well, you know, if it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t be where you are. If it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t be Michael Jackson superstar” and stuff, you know. And I told him before, ’cause we got into a big fight, I says, “That’s halfway true.” I said, “But you know what I said, I grew up in this business and I learned a lot. You had a lot to do with it in the beginning and I thank you for that, but I can’t pay you back for the rest of my life.” I said, “I know the business.” You know, I told him before, I said, ” I know the business better than you do.” And I said, “You can’t keep throwing that in my face.” I said, “Because it took you to get me started.” I said, “But then after that, I was my own business man.” ‘Cause he was screwin’ up deals right and left.
G: What was the last thing [that you got involved in with] him, was it the Victory Tour?
MJ: Well, yeah, that’s one of the last things he dabbled in, he screwed it up. I said, “Don’t use Don King.” And all this and that. (Joe’s voice)” Oh, but Don, well, you know, he’s a good businessman.” I said, “No, he’s not, he’s a crook.”
G: (i) [That was a funny one? Tell us the funny part?]
MJ: He can suck my socks.
G: (laughs) I love that one part where he made this speech about bringing him back and everything. (i)
MJ: Say what?
G: You know that thing that he said, that thing and he was going on and on about- [and I was like]will you shut up?
G: (i) shut up. (laughs) That was so funny!
MJ: That was funny, yeah.
G: Uh huh. That was funny.
G: and she gave us um, she gave us some fragrance, some . The boys came and put the video game in (i) PTA, golf, something, real extravagant. It’s very well put together, you know, didn’t expect (i). It’s funny because they have all the sound effects of birds in the trees and crickets, and (i) keep the golf ball landing in the [street/tree]. It’s fun, I mean.
G: They love it. (i). That was fun. (Pause). So you just rehearse today and (i)? [had an argument with your dad?)
MJ: I been real busy with rehearsal.
G: [Are you excited/ready] to get up on that stage now?
MJ: Gotta get it togetha. Or leave it alone.
G: “Get it togetha or leave it alone”?
MJ: If you don’t want my lovin’, I’ll be gone.
G: Is that a song?
MJ: Yeah, it is.
G: Which song?
MJ: Get It Together.
G: Is it one of your songs?
MJ: Yeah. It’s one that, god it’s either with the Jackson Five, or The Jacksons.
G: I don’t remember that.
MJ: Get it togetha! Or leave it alone. If you don’t want my lovin’, I’ll be gone.
G: No, I never heard that.
MJ: (chuckle) I have to make you a tape later.
G: (laughs) I guess there’s a lot of songs I just don’t know.
MJ: Yeah. (high voice) Hi, Shadowww! (noises to the dog, laugh).
G: (laughs) I was wonderin’,”What is UP?” That’s a quiet dog. That’s the quietest dog I’ve ever-
MJ: I know she never barked yet.
G: Not yet?
MJ: Girl, when it comes dinner time, if I’m not home and somebody feeds her, they say, “Shadow! Sasha! Time to eat!” Sasha barks (barking noises), she get all excited right?
G: Uh huh.
MJ: Shadow, she just be silent, she does not make a sound. She runs, she jumps up and down, runs around in a circle, and she gets real excited and wants me to pet her.
G: She’s not the only one! (laughs)
MJ: (laughs) I know, huh?
G: What put you in such a crazy mood?
MJ: Excuse me?
G: What put you in such a crazy mood?
MJ: Oh god, a number of things.
G: Huh? A number of things?
G: Good things?
MJ: You know, Kathy’s, she’s so crazy.
MJ: We were talkin’ and I was dyin’. Oh my god.
MJ: Yeah. It was so-
G: Like “dyin’”, funny, or-
G: Oh, you were laughing.
G: Oh, okay.
MJ: Do you really wanna know?
G: Tell me, what!
MJ: (laughing) First of all, I’m having a wine cooler.
MJ: Today is Kathy’s birthday.
G: Oh. Yeah?
MJ: And, girl. I don’t know how we got on the subject… God, I do not remember (I, laughing) We were talking about… white guys.
G: White guys?
MJ: Yeah (laugh)
MJ: I was talking with Kathy, cause she’s a nurse. Oh, because Randy the other day was calling Kathy prejudice and stuff like that and she’s like, “I’m not prejudice, I like white people. I have a preference, I would never sleep with a white man.” And we were talking about that. (laughing)
MJ: (laugh) She goes (laugh)
G: Oh no…
MJ: She like, “No, I would never sleep with a white man because their penises are just too pink” or too red or something.
MJ: And their veins show! (laughing)
G: Oh my god!
MJ: She like, “No, I wouldn’t mind, you know, doin’ stuff with a white man because I’m not prejudice, I like white people” and stuff, “But ooh, god, I could never I could never lay down with a white man!”
G: She said that?
MJ: Because their penis is all pink and its all red, you know. She got these old men, you know, that sometimes she gotta put catheters on them and stuff like that.
MJ: She’s like, “(i) oh when the white man’s old. His penis shrinks up and you gotta jerk it up” and (i) find it and stuff! (laugh)
G: Oh my god.
MJ: Like, “Black men aren’t like that.” You know? “Even when they’re old, their penis don’t shrink up that little. And they’re not all red and wrinkled.”
MJ: (laugh) I like, “Oh my God.”
MJ: She said, “I like them thick”. And she’s like, “I just can’t be making love with a white man. There’s no red or pink stuff inside me!” (laughs)
G: Oh, gross! That’s what she said?
MJ: “But I’m not prejudice, it’s just my preference.” (i).
G: What will you do for her birthday?
MJ: Well, I guess her and Randy are supposed to get together. Not sure. She said she’s 25, I said, “Yeah, you’re 25 like I’m 18.”
MJ: Yeah right. She’s 30.
G: She is?
MJ: Yeah, ’cause Randy’s 30, so she’s right behind him.
G: Well I’m way past that zone?
MJ: (i) You’re 45.
G: Uh uh.
MJ: Don’t you lie to me and say you’re 30!
MJ: Now, wait a minute, that means… (Sam?) is 33… and you’re 44…(i)
G: (laughing) Yeah, this is (i). This is (i) I’m just about ready for my walker. I’m an old lady.
G: I don’t know. Well, I don’t feel that age, but then I think, well what is that age supposed to feel like anyway?
MJ: Well, you know, like I always say, “If you don’t know how old you are, how old would you like to be?“
G: (i). I feel very young right now.
MJ: Well you look it on the outside.
MJ: Oh, yeah, I think you’re very pretty.
G: Why, thank you.
MJ: (Pause) Yeah, you always have a glow on your face. Even that picture that I have with you and, uh, all the kids, and you were in a red sweatsuit when you were in that red fitness suit.
MJ: Yes, and you had long hair.
G: Yeah. You have a picture of me when I was, when I was still, uh, when I was still 30.
MJ: I got lots of pictures of you!
MJ: (i). Every time I saw you, all the pictures that I have of you, you always look [somewhat young?].
G: Because I was (i) before you were. (laugh)
MJ: (Inaudible- “Jason”?)
MJ: (i). [Jason?]
G: Oh. You know his hair is so long and it’s such a beautiful color of red. It’s the longest I’ve ever seen it. Kinda like that Christian Slater guy.
MJ: I remember… when I was-
MJ: [Remember and all the boys were bigger than me?]
G: Don’t remember that
MJ: (Yeah, but he’s still younger than me, but bigger.)
G: I remember the very first time I ever saw you. You don’t remember that (i). You asked me how old you were.
MJ: In the olden days?
G: (laughs) Yeah, remember the olden days. . (both laugh) Yeah, we’re old. And you asked me how old you were. And I said something like, “You were (I).” Do you remember that? (laughing)
MJ: (i) Tell me (i) how did you come on the phone?
G: You asked to talk to me. You [called me and asked me to pick up the phone to your mother]
MJ: Yeah. And what happened? What did I say?
G: You said, “Hi. (i)” Can’t believe I’m talking to him. I thought, “he’s so polite.” Oh (laughs) didn’t know what to say and sounded like I had cotton in my throat.
G: Couldn’t believe it. And then, I don’t know, after that you guys were on the phone a lot. Once in a great while I would get on the phone. One time you called, and I think you were in a sound studio or something (I). Then there was a period of time that we didn’t speak and then we got that mailagram one day.
MJ: Yeah, ’cause I left/lost the number.
G: And so I called you-
G: (i) I still have that (i) mailgram
G: From 1985? Yeah.
G: Yeah! And the two letters that you wrote for the [Pocorabel? Cocorabel? Sounds like](i).
G: But, um… then (i)that went on for a while, and then one time you were supposed to come and get it [this pochorabel word](i) but you didn’t show up. And you were so crushed that you couldn’t (i). And then there’s after that, I don’t know, phonecalls were less (i) I guess you got busy.
MJ: Yes, I got busy with the Thriller thing.
G: (i) I thought you were getting ready to do the Bad tour.
G: ‘Cause this was after Thriller, wasn’t it? This was after Thriller.
MJ: That was about the time-
G: Wasn’t Thriller 1983?
MJ: ’83, ’84.
G: This was in ’85, ’86. So I thought maybe it was the touring. But I remember, one of the last calls (i) I was in the living room, you called and you asked what I thought of Janet’s video
G: Janet’s video. I guess she had just come out with a new video you saw and you got on the phone and you… .and that’s when our conversation ended after that and it just stopped. And then it was just a pleasant memory.
G: (i), right?
MJ: (singing) “MEMORIES”…….
G: Uh huh. (i). Yeah, Then you called in November
MJ: And then one time I called you, and you said, “…..Who is this??”
G: I wasn’t like that! I-
MJ: Yes, you were!
G: I don’t-
MJ: Girl, you were a mother hen.
G: I don’t talk that way on the phone.
MJ: Oh, yeah.
G: The phone makes you sound funny-
MJ: You gave me the third degree and-
G: I wanted to make sure nobody was messin’ around with me!
MJ: I’m like, “Uh, uh, uhm.” I said, “I used to talk to you(i) And I lost the number and (i).” And then I said, “I’ll tell you about the poem you wrote. (i). Yeah, you wrote me this poem called Blue (i) about the sky being so blue (i).” (laughs)
G: I just didn’t want anybody messing around with (i). ‘Cause that was a real, that was a highlight in my life (i) and I didn’t want anybody mess around with that. (i). Then two weeks later, you [call me at 10:30 at night (i)], you were all upset that I had done that!
MJ: Yeah (chuckles).
MJ: I don’t know…
G: You were cryin’ and everything.
MJ: I was crying?
G: Yeah. Or you were sniffling. I figured you were crying.
MJ: Don’t you feel that sometimes you get someplace (i), difficult. (i). I mean, that’s not what happened to me (i) In the beginning
G: (After a silence) [I can't hear you.] Can you hear me now?
MJ: (i) You stay sometimes and you get like (inaudible)
G: (i) I was analyzing today why, um…
G: I was analyzing my Mother’s Day (chuckles). I was thinking, you know, um, she was a, kind of a moody type person and her moods would… I guess this is how I learned to handle her real carefully. Because her mood could change so drastically and I would’ve done something wrong. But I didn’t know what I’d done.
G: So she would play this game like, “If you don’t know what you’ve done unless I tell you.” I hate that, I can’t stand, ’cause… I may not know what I had done, you know, but then… she would tell tell me what I’d done, but she would get angrier with me because I didn’t know what I had done.
MJ: She would get (i)?
G: Angry at me.
G: Because I didn’t know what I had done and I was just stare her, I would just look at her without emotion because she was getting angry… and getting in my face, and I was thinking, “I am not going to let you know how much you are upsetting me right now.” So, “I’m not going to show you an emotion, I’m not going to show you what you’re doing to me, [I'm not gonna cry].” And so after she would leave, and then I would go in my room and close the door and then I would have a reaction. I was trying to analyze why I don’t react. And I think that’s the reason, because I learned a long time ago- Don’t. Show. Reaction.
MJ: Don’t show emotions and don’t show feelings.
G: Right. Don’t let that person see your reaction. Don’t let that person see your emotions, see what they’re doing to you…