He’s 32 here so this is sometime between August 29th 1990 – August 29th 1991
Conversation between Glenda’s husband Sam Stein and Michael
MJ: If you don’t know, I don’t know.
S: Well, you know what, you gotta go and find out.
MJ: I can’t afford to mess up.
S: Really? you can’t afford to not to, take a chance…?… Yes, you can. I think, I mean, you can’t be completely totally alone… I think that when you’re totally ready …?…Who’s hurt you the most in your life?
MJ: Excuse me?
S: Who’s hurt you the most?
MJ: People that I…(I trust?) they hurt me?….
S: Oh really, who’s hurt you the most?
MJ: Lots of people… (i)
S: She didn’t mean to, though?
MJ: When she started making a game out of it and [she knew that I was (I) and lied to me….(inaudible)…and tried to…] S: Who else? What about you manager guy?
MJ: Excuse me?
S: What about your, who’s your manager’s name?
S: The one that really hurt you…his name’s Frank or something.
MJ: Who, Tate?
S: No, your manager, your manager, your…
MJ: Frank Dileo?
MJ: That was different. That was a business relationship.
S: Was that just like uh, he didn’t hurt you, he just uh, you just had a parting of the ways?
MJ: He tried to get too controlling.
S: That was just, uh, that was just business.
MJ: I don’t remember…?…(mumbles)
S: Mike, trust me. You can trust me. Who else has hurt you? You don’t have that many people with you.
MJ: What difference does it make?
S: Well, I hope I’m not one of them.
MJ: (I) (I’m going to (I))
S: Well you have
S: Well, you are. Maybe you should die.
MJ: Maybe I should die?
S: In the media
S: Maybe you should die in the media?
MJ: (Laughs uncomfortably) Naw.
S: Imitates being an announcer “(See or the)…?…Michael Jackson.” (Then they’ll knock themselves out on TV getting you to die in a video.) Imitates being an announcer again [We (i) a surprising time of him on tape (i) Michael Jackson’s ghost. Hidden behind a curtain… And running from Elvis (i)] MJ: (laughs awkwardly) It’s going to be the British.
S: I’m going to run you out of this city.
S: ‘Cuz I’m mean Jackson.
MJ: For real?
S: I’m going to run you out of this city, Jackson.
MJ: Say what?
S: I said, I’m going to run you out of this city if you outlive me.
MJ: You’re not gonna outlive me.
S: Hey, I’m 33. You’re 32.
S: Huh? What?
MJ: Sometimes it’s hard for me to get close to people. What would it have been like if I wasn’t Michael Jackson…?…Would there…(I bad tape quality)?….Joseph…?…But you know that I’m not gonna hurt you… You know I would never hurt you. You know, you know that, right?
MJ: But you know that I wouldn’t hurt you.
S: That’s the billion dollar question…(I)
MJ: Yes, but you know that… it’s just a game.
S: ? would I (I)
MJ: ? it’s just a game.
S: Oh, in the media?
MJ: As far as being, um…
S: As far as having a relationship? Is the baby moving?
MJ: (Laughs uncomfortably) No, we’re careful, there’s no babies. The way you feel… don’t you know better, don’t you know that, no matter what, that I don’t want, I don’t want to do anything to hurt you all?
S: We know that.
MJ: No, I’m serious. You don’t understand. No matter what. I don’t.
S: I know you don’t. And everything’s good. You’ve always been good to me and I think you’re waking up. If I ever thought that you’d, uh, was being other than, you know, just you know just genuine, we wouldn’t have the relationship we have. I have no doubts about that.
MJ: About, that I don’t want to hurt you all?
S: Yeah. Never been, never been an issue.
MJ: But no matter what, I mean, nothing, I don’t want to hurt you people.
S: Have you even been in this kind of relationship?
MJ: No, this is the real thing…
S: …(inaudible) individuals you were with?
MJ: It’s real messy and they’re mean.
S: How about people outside the business?
MJ: At the same time, it’s hard. It’s hard to be friends with someone who’s not in the business because they don’t see, they don’t, they don’t understand, it’s different…?…and so…
S: I have a lot of empathy for you.
S: Yes I do. I, Uh, I would think that, uh, after talking to you I had the strongest feeling yesterday that the fact that you are who you are and, uh, that you have to put up this front and there’s plenty of people pulling you in so many directions. It’s uh, you have to smile when the cameras are on and, uh, it’s very lonely. You’ve said it yourself so many times. It’s lonely–
MJ: It’s pretend. It’s like the 2300, like the video, like the mini-series, like growing up um with Motown and they tell you, they prep you. Like living with Diane (he calls her Diane here, not Diana Ross). They tell you what to say, what not to say. The lies I had to tell. Um. Diana. Diana discovered the Jacksons. That wasn’t true. She did not discover us. But it’s publicity. It’s pretend.
S: Who discovered you really?
MJ: Bobby Taylor and we went to a party and, uh, Gladys Knight. Diana, Diane had nothin’ to do with it.
S: I guess she was just the big name at the time huh?
MJ: And then I was supposed to be a certain age. Well, I, Okay, like, when I first came out, I had to lie about my age, but…
S: How come?
MJ: Because it’s publicity. You don’t understand.
S: How old were you? How old were you and how old did you say you were?
MJ: I said I was 10 and I was 11.
S: How come that would make a difference?
MJ: Think about it. Think about it because (squeals in high voice) “Oh! Oh he’s only 10 years old!”
S: (Imitates same squeal) “They say, oh oh you’re only –”
MJ: No, you have to lie about things. You have to cover up. You have to act like all that stuff that happened with, with Joseph and stuff. It’s like we’re supposed to be the perfect family, you know, because they putting your name out there and stuff and, uh, they’re supposed to you know, look good because it sells records and it attracts people. And the stories, well, they used to come out with when we were little. There was this one story, some magazine. I think it was “16” magazine back then. I was 13. And they lying and they have all these really weird kinda stories like Michael made this handicapped girl walk again because she saved Chester the cat. There was no Chester the cat. It was just lies. It was just…
S: They make you lie?
MJ: It sells, you know?
S: It sells records?
MJ: “Oh look what a fantastic person he is. You saved this girl’s life. She almost got run over by a lawn mower and she walked.” And…
S: …like that dying little black boy?…
S: …?…that dying little black kid. Is it true how much of a the little dying black boy…dying child …dying kid…?…comes to get you, (I) Michael Jackson, famous kid.
MJ: It’s like, “The Jackson family, they’re so wholesome.” And we all took pictures together back in the Jackson 5 days with Motown and stuff like that. We were all so close and Joseph was, you know, “Papa Joe”. You know. And then LaToya told the truth (LaToya’s book was published in ’91 revealed the extent of the abuse by Joe). They portray everything you know, because of publicity. “The Jackson family. They lived in a ghetto in Gary, Indiana and they made it and they’re so tight knit.” Tight knit, my ass.
S: (Laughs) Well, some of your family’s pretty tight knit though? Your brothers are pretty tight knit? No?